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Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - ShineCero - 10-27-2018

Quote:Malaysia’s prime minister has said his country will not be forced to accept “western values” such as same-sex marriage.

His blunt comments were made at a forum during a state visit to Thailand on Thursday, against a backdrop of what activists say is a growing intolerance towards Malaysia’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) community.

"At this moment, we do not accept LGBT but if they (the West) want to accept, that is their business. Don't force it on us," Mr Mahathir, 93, told a packed audience at Bangkok’s Chulalongkorn University, according to AFP.

"The institution of marriage, the institution of the family has now been disregarded in the West. Why should we follow that? Our value system is as good," he added. 

"If they (the West) one day decided to walk around naked, do we have to follow?"

Malaysia operates on a dual track legal system that gives Islamic courts the right to handle religious and family matters for Muslim citizens, who make up more than 60 per cent of the population.


Islamic laws are also overseen by individual states in Malaysia.

Mr Mahathir rose to power in May on the back of public anger over allegations of a government financial scam, ousting his former protégé, Najib Razak, in a shock election defeat. 

But despite his anti-corruption drive and pledge to clean up Malaysian politics, activists have been alarmed at the potential erosion of civil rights under his administration. 

In August, Human Rights Watch accused the new government of putting out a “series of mixed messages” on LGBT rights. 

The group said that while Mujahid Yusof Rawa, Islamic affairs minister, had condemned bullying and discrimination against LGBT people, he had also asserted before parliament that the government was concerned about the “worrying” “spread of the LGBT lifestyle.”

Activists flagged up press reports in July in which the minister said “camps” and “seminars” would be organised for LGBT people, reportedly adding that “parents need to be aware that this can be stopped from the beginning. We are ready to guide and help because we have the expertise.”

In September the prime minister said same-sex unions were not suitable for Malaysia. He reinforced that message in his speech in Bangkok, criticising the practice of same-sex couples adopting children. 

However, despite his stance, Mr Mahathir recently denounced the caning of two women accused of having lesbian sex in Malaysia. The unprecedented case had spread fear among the country's LGBT community.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/26/malaysias-pm-rejects-same-sex-marriage-institution-family-has/


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - ~ Z ~ - 10-27-2018

After reading this, it seems a bit sad that a country would be forced to say such hateful things. I no expert in Malaysian culture or laws, but I think this is taking a step in the wrong direction. I know it's not the country, but rather, the people who run it (Like the PM). It gives such a negative view on what probably the majority of Malaysians actually think about Same sex relationships. Hopefully, in the near future, the people of Malaysia will step up to show that there is nothing wrong with Same-Sex relationships. 

Maybe laws will change drastically when the PM is out of office and a new generation can shine through, accepting all people into the country of Malaysia, with no hate.


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - Elio - 10-27-2018

(10-27-2018, 03:33 PM)~ Z ~ Wrote: After reading this, it seems a bit sad that a country would be forced to say such hateful things. I no expert in Malaysian culture or laws, but I think this is taking a step in the wrong direction. I know it's not the country, but rather, the people who run it (Like the PM). It gives such a negative view on what probably the majority of Malaysians actually think about Same sex relationships. Hopefully, in the near future, the people of Malaysia will step up to show that there is nothing wrong with Same-Sex relationships. 

Maybe laws will change drastically when the PM is out of office and a new generation can shine through, accepting all people into the country of Malaysia, with no hate.

Nope, it's the country itself. It has ALWAYS been the country. Speaking as an LGBT person in Malaysia. The growing homophobia, plus this blatant denial of our rights, have been such a huge issue for many years. Mahathir is well-known for being a homophobe despite his daughter Marina working to help LGBT people. 

People voted for the opposition hoping it will signal positive change for many people, especially LGBT persons. But ever since the May elections, it seems that homophobia and transphobia has increased tenfold. Anti-LGBT sentiments are growing louder by the day, not to mention there is now records of LGBT people facing violence under this new governance and the core govt. is actively trying to either justify it or silence us. 

Malaysia is a homophobic country. There's no going around it. And sadly Islam plays a very major role in this growing homophobia.


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - ShineCero - 10-28-2018

What I don't understand is how is this an "western ideal"? Since is when respecting another person as a human being suddenly being aligned to the West? The odd comparison about "being naked" was seemingly odd, until I read a story about several British tourists getting naked on a mountain in Malaysia: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/11664836/What-will-happen-to-the-naked-tourists-of-Malaysia.html

Like, what the hell is with that backward logic?

Quote:People voted for the opposition hoping it will signal positive change for many people, especially LGBT persons. But ever since the May elections, it seems that homophobia and transphobia has increased tenfold. Anti-LGBT sentiments are growing louder by the day, not to mention there is now records of LGBT people facing violence under this new governance and the core govt. is actively trying to either justify it or silence us.

That's god damn depressing.


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - Elio - 10-29-2018

The funniest thing is that homophobia is the Western construct, not Eastern. LGBT identities have always been existent in the region before the Brits came along. That's why the idea that LGBT ""lifestyles"" are "Western" is complete horseshit.


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - Grey Star - 10-29-2018

(10-27-2018, 10:29 PM)Elio Wrote: Malaysia is a homophobic country. There's no going around it. And sadly Islam plays a very major role in this growing homophobia.

One thing I wonder since the article mentions a "dual track" legal system. Hypothetically speaking as someone who doesn't understand this all that well: If a Muslim person were to assault an LGBT person, the Muslim court would take priority in the case and refuse to convict someone for their assault, similar to how privileged courts will often refuse to convict someone of a crime against an "undesirable"?

(10-28-2018, 10:44 PM)ShineCero Wrote: What I don't understand is how is this an "western ideal"? Since is when respecting another person as a human being suddenly being aligned to the West?

From my perspective it could probably be the fact that, going by the Good Book, Jesus said to love all humans for they are the Children of God. And no matter what any priest, any church, or even any other part of the Bible said, that's the defining truth to live by. But honestly in my education I've always been taught that discrimination began with rich, sheltered, educated white men who had never met anyone whose skin was anywhere near darker than white tea mugs or anyone less heterosexual than Jesus who was always suspiciously surrounded by men. As for the East, I don't recall major racism or homophobia concerns in what I've heard, only lots and lots of classism. I could be very, very wrong.

(10-29-2018, 07:23 AM)Elio Wrote: The funniest thing is that homophobia is the Western construct, not Eastern. LGBT identities have always been existent in the region before the Brits came along. That's why the idea that LGBT ""lifestyles"" are "Western" is complete horseshit.

So the whole conversation he's putting out is flipping around the "good Muslim values" to be "East" and the "bad LGBT values" to be West when it's more accurately the reverse?

(I have a feeling somewhere in this post I've said something wrong, and if my words hurt you, I'm sorry.)


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - fullblue - 10-29-2018

I'm not surprised, Malaysia has a funny case of eliminating opposition with sodomy charge.

From what I know, it is mostly abrahamic faith that is so strongly against LBGT which make it even bigger surprise when the catholic church decided to be more neutral on this issue.


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - Elio - 10-31-2018

(10-29-2018, 12:19 PM)Grey Star Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 10:29 PM)Elio Wrote: Malaysia is a homophobic country. There's no going around it. And sadly Islam plays a very major role in this growing homophobia.

One thing I wonder since the article mentions a "dual track" legal system. Hypothetically speaking as someone who doesn't understand this all that well: If a Muslim person were to assault an LGBT person, the Muslim court would take priority in the case and refuse to convict someone for their assault, similar to how privileged courts will often refuse to convict someone of a crime against an "undesirable"?

If a Muslim assaults an LGBT person, it goes through the civic court. It only goes through the Sharia court when the one being assaulted is Muslim. Or if said LGBT Muslim is "caught" doing "LGBT activities/lifestyles". Either way, LGBT people are screwed unless the lawyer is a pro-LGBT person and the judge is an open-minded person. Which rarely happens.

(10-29-2018, 02:48 PM)fullblue Wrote: I'm not surprised, Malaysia has a funny case of eliminating opposition with sodomy charge.

From what I know, it is mostly abrahamic faith that is so strongly against LBGT which make it even bigger surprise when the catholic church decided to be more neutral on this issue.

You know what they say: when you're the minority in the nation, you tend to be more tolerant. But then again, Christians here are very, very pro-conversion therapy. They're just quiet about it because the Muslims make enough noise already for all the homophobes in this country.


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - ~ Z ~ - 10-31-2018

(10-27-2018, 10:29 PM)Elio Wrote:
(10-27-2018, 03:33 PM)~ Z ~ Wrote: After reading this, it seems a bit sad that a country would be forced to say such hateful things. I no expert in Malaysian culture or laws, but I think this is taking a step in the wrong direction. I know it's not the country, but rather, the people who run it (Like the PM). It gives such a negative view on what probably the majority of Malaysians actually think about Same sex relationships. Hopefully, in the near future, the people of Malaysia will step up to show that there is nothing wrong with Same-Sex relationships. 

Maybe laws will change drastically when the PM is out of office and a new generation can shine through, accepting all people into the country of Malaysia, with no hate.

Nope, it's the country itself. It has ALWAYS been the country. Speaking as an LGBT person in Malaysia. The growing homophobia, plus this blatant denial of our rights, have been such a huge issue for many years. Mahathir is well-known for being a homophobe despite his daughter Marina working to help LGBT people. 

People voted for the opposition hoping it will signal positive change for many people, especially LGBT persons. But ever since the May elections, it seems that homophobia and transphobia has increased tenfold. Anti-LGBT sentiments are growing louder by the day, not to mention there is now records of LGBT people facing violence under this new governance and the core govt. is actively trying to either justify it or silence us. 

Malaysia is a homophobic country. There's no going around it. And sadly Islam plays a very major role in this growing homophobia.

Oh wow, I stand corrected. It's just a bit of a shame. Yeesh, I hope things get better as more people begin to support the LGBT community. I personally think Religion should have nothing to do with this but hey, the world isn't perfect...


RE: Malaysia's PM rejects same-sex marriage - fullblue - 11-01-2018

Great majority of churches are homophobic, I'm pretty sure of that. Sodom and Gomorrah lol. It was a surprise when the Pope talked about accepting homosexuals when catholic church was known to be staunchly against it. It could be his personal view, but it is a sign that the world is changing.

I'm still wondering what happened with the Anwar Ibrahim case lol